Embark on an exploration of the Bitcoin-based domain naming protocols where we unravel the dynamic SATS Names ecosystem alongside special guests xo.sats, gm.sats and Matt Gould, CEO of Unstoppable Domains. We lift the veil on the community's metamorphosis from enigmatic origins to becoming a cornerstone of digital identity on the Bitcoin blockchain. As pioneers in the space, our guests dissect the practicalities and excitement behind owning a .sats domain, and we navigate the choppy waters of traditional Web 2.0 infrastructure integration and the quest for future ICANN inclusion.
Gear up for a deep-dive into the adrenaline-pumping realm of blockchain domain name trading, with Hugo shedding light on the innovative GBM auction model that is shaking up the way we engage with domain liquidity. As we wade through the Bitcoin Naming Service (BNS), domain collisions, and the necessity of consensus in this ever-evolving space, we underscore the pivotal role of .sats in fortifying digital identity and the freedom of internet expression. This episode isn't just about understanding the tech; it's about recognizing the seismic shift in online security and validation that Dot .sats represents.
As the curtain falls on our comprehensive session, we glance into the future of domain valuation and the potential for the .sats names to become coveted digital assets. With the rise of Magic Eden and the Bitcoin adoption race, we celebrate the forward-thinking players paving the way for broader acceptance. Whether you're a Bitcoin enthusiast, a domain investor, or just crypto-curious, this episode offers a treasure trove of insights into the mechanics and magnificence of the SATS Names and their indelible mark on the digital landscape.
Embark on an exploration of the Bitcoin-based domain naming protocols where we unravel the dynamic SATS Names ecosystem alongside special guests xo.sats, gm.sats and Matt Gould, CEO of Unstoppable Domains. We lift the veil on the community's metamorphosis from enigmatic origins to becoming a cornerstone of digital identity on the Bitcoin blockchain. As pioneers in the space, our guests dissect the practicalities and excitement behind owning a .sats domain, and we navigate the choppy waters of traditional Web 2.0 infrastructure integration and the quest for future ICANN inclusion.
Gear up for a deep-dive into the adrenaline-pumping realm of blockchain domain name trading, with Hugo shedding light on the innovative GBM auction model that is shaking up the way we engage with domain liquidity. As we wade through the Bitcoin Naming Service (BNS), domain collisions, and the necessity of consensus in this ever-evolving space, we underscore the pivotal role of .sats in fortifying digital identity and the freedom of internet expression. This episode isn't just about understanding the tech; it's about recognizing the seismic shift in online security and validation that Dot .sats represents.
As the curtain falls on our comprehensive session, we glance into the future of domain valuation and the potential for the .sats names to become coveted digital assets. With the rise of Magic Eden and the Bitcoin adoption race, we celebrate the forward-thinking players paving the way for broader acceptance. Whether you're a Bitcoin enthusiast, a domain investor, or just crypto-curious, this episode offers a treasure trove of insights into the mechanics and magnificence of the SATS Names and their indelible mark on the digital landscape.
These great decor robots appetite to have a celebration. Hello, hello.
Speaker 2:We will get started in just a moment. If you guys could please do me a favor and like and retweet the space, I'll get a few more people in here Very excited for this space. How you guys do it today, can you hear me?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I can definitely hear you man. Yeah, I'm excited, man. So, yeah, just let us know when we are going to start.
Speaker 2:Yes, sir, yes sir, we'll get into it in just a moment. Sorry, trying to clear my throat up a little bit. Yeah, glad to have you up. Glad to have you up as well. Xosatz, how are you doing today?
Speaker 4:Hey, good morning man, I'm doing very well, thanks. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm glad, definitely glad, to have you. And then, last but not least, how are you doing today, chris? Yeah, I can see a little bit. I'm actually going to let Matt up as well. Awesome, awesome. Hopefully you can hear me. How are you doing today as well, matt?
Speaker 5:Good, let me know if you can hear me. Alright, and you know, space is man. It's always crazy with the audio.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it does turn out weird and I can hear you perfectly, so thank God for that. So I've got all three of my speakers. Hopefully Chris can come back up in just a moment, but yeah, we will get started Once again. Do want to remind everybody if you could please like and retrieve the space again. These spaces, these AMAs, are for you and for your education. Also, if anybody does want to speak, feel free to request a speaker vote and I will allow you up on stage. And yeah, without further ado, hold up, I'm going to let Chris back up again. And yeah, and also, I haven't talked to you, matt, since the Domainer Expo. Hope you've been doing pretty well since then.
Speaker 5:Yeah, things have been good. We've just been building. You know also took a break for the holidays and we just got a lot of work to get done Right. So we're fine. We'll get into it a little bit later. We're seeing progress on all fronts. Obviously, I wish we were done with things faster, but you know, I'm happy with the progress that we're seeing and we'll have things out for everybody when we have it Right. We're working as hard as we can. So, yeah, move forward.
Speaker 2:Yes, sir, looking forward to it in a very bullish 2024. Try one more time how you doing today. Chris, can you hear me?
Speaker 6:Yeah, I should be able to hear you now.
Speaker 2:I'm so awesome, glad to have you on board as well, and, yeah, I guess we'll go ahead and get started. I actually have a wedding to go to in a few hours, so, yeah, pretty busy day, but had to get into this one. So, yeah, I would like to welcome everyone to another I Hard Domains Tech Talk AMA. Well, we highlight and deep dive with builders, entrepreneurs and visionaries in the Web 3 Digital Identity, blockchain tech and domain name space. For those unable to attend or want to listen back and share, our tech talks are recorded so you can view our entire content archive on our website at Iharddomainscom. We actually have all of these spaces embedded within embedded media players. You can listen to them back on there or in podcast form on every major podcast player, including Apple and Spotify. You can reach that at techtalkhost. And yeah, again, if anybody wants to come up and ask any questions, just answer AMA. So feel free to leave those questions in the comments if you don't want to come up this week or request a role. And then, as always, if anyone is interested or you hear something and you'd like to get any more information, I always encourage you to join these communities directly. As always, do your own research and our AMAs are not financial advice.
Speaker 2:And, yeah, without further ado, as everyone can see in the title, this AMA is with SATS names and we are going to do a deep dive into the SATS names, protocols and SATS. For those of you who have state your claim in EVM based domains, naming on BTC or Bitcoin has always been something like we're kind of bullish on at a distance but don't quite understand completely. So today, hopefully we get to change that. The integration news a while back by unstoppable domains put a mainstream spotlight on that on dot SATS and the SATS names and ordinals ecosystem. So, yeah, I'm honored today to have the opportunity to learn more about the beginnings of the community, the importance of BTC having its own DNS or identity protocol, the potential relationship and mechanics with the unstoppable integration and also the vision for the future. So, yeah, let's begin by going back through everyone and introducing yourself and how you're connected to the dot SATS community and I guess we'll. We'll end with Matt, because that's the obvious one, right? So go for XO and GM.
Speaker 4:Hey, thanks again for having me. Really appreciate you hosting the space. Yeah, I'm XO SATS. I've been involved in the SATS names community since pretty much the start. So if you go back to about February when the SATS names protocol was launched, at the time I was sort of sort of active in sort of the dot ETH community and also taking a look at BNS names.
Speaker 4:At the time and, having always kind of been interested in naming systems, I decided or I saw this why would call it quite mysterious post from an account calling itself SATS names. And yeah, at the time, to be honest with you, ordinals was so new and I think a lot of people didn't even know how to make an inscription, so we kind of dove in. It forced me to dive in and that's actually how I did. My first inscription was I did a SATS name and what happened was this sort of organic evolution of community and I would say watching that grow was was really interesting and fun. And because it was so decentralized, there was no real central registrar and there was no kind of focal point for the community, it just kind of grew. And so that's how it started with with discord and joining discord and actually the community discord became the official sort of SATS names discord over time as as the community grew and I have to say it was.
Speaker 4:I was very, very excited from the start because the concept of having a name on Bitcoin layer one just seemed so exciting to me and resonated so well.
Speaker 4:And I don't think I was alone, because there were literally tens of thousands of people registering SATS names in those early days and I think I was probably one of the first people to actually start buying SATS names on secondary as well, because I remember there was an Ordinals wallet started to. There were Ordinals wallet was probably one of the first wallets that actually had a listing for the SATS names collection and I remember going on there and being like, oh, look at these amazing names like only 100 bucks or only 200 bucks. And so I picked up some of those early grails that way and I was inspired by GM SATS, who's here with me today and he's an OG in the community. He'll probably tell you more about his big purchase, but when he bought GM dot SATS, that was a big sort of historic moment, I would say in the early days and it inspired me to go and buy XO SATS, which also has become sort of my identity and, yeah, I love it. It's been great to be part of this community.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you both definitely grail names, and when I do see any dot, sats or any bullish news about Ordinals, I'm pretty easy faces and names to recognize. Go ahead and introduce yourself.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you know when Ordinals started, like all trading, like happened, like in discord channels.
Speaker 3:you know all OTC, so you know you had to send like some small part of Bitcoin, some SATS, over just to get your Ordinal in your wallet. So I was a bit hesitant at first to do that Any of that. I was like you know, like, yeah, I don't want to get scammed. You know, I don't have any confidence in this like trading OTC. I wish I did, because I missed the generation wealth by doing that. So.
Speaker 3:But when I saw these, these SATS names being inscribed, I just it felt right from the start I wasn't that early. I was inscribing my own SATS names at like around 300K inscriptions, I believe. So that was a bit later, so I was a bit sad that I missed the really good names. So I went to check on Ordinals wallet and I, yeah, my eyes immediately fell on GM dot set and I was like you know, I was like already buying so much Ordinals and other stuff and inscribing that I went almost broke. So I told my wife. I told my wife I saw a really good SATS name on Ordinals wallet, but I said I didn't have the liquidity for it. And she, she, she believed me and she said you know, I'm going to give you like three months of my savings or my salary and just just buy it. You know, she also liked the name so so I was really fortunate to be able to buy it and I've been walking it ever since.
Speaker 3:I've been getting a few bits as high as half a Bitcoin, so like 20, that's like $22,000 right now and I've been refusing any offer I have gotten right at this moment. So that's a bit of my story and, yeah, I love being in space and I love promoting SATS names and all the Ordinals. I love like the notes, note months and the Bitcoin frogs. Yeah, I love these projects.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is an inspiring conviction and it's definitely paying off and I look forward to a lot of these questions are going to be kind of interchangeable with asking about Ordinals technology, so definitely look forward to getting you guys's expertise and insight on that as well. I don't want to cause a glitch, but who's usually in the co-host spot, as you guys are pretty sure recognized by now, is Chris from Namertips. Go ahead and introduce yourself, sir.
Speaker 6:Well, I'll be brief to which. For those of you all who don't know, I'm Chris. I'm the strategy director at Namertips. I actually have the privilege of taking part in these amazing tech talks with wonderful builders in the space and sharing our stories along in the process and hearing great stories like what GMSATS just shared. That's just amazing and it's just going to be a great talk, as you.
Speaker 2:Yes, sir, you're sir looking forward to it, and then honored and privileged to have Matt, ceo of Unstoppable Domains, in the room. Even though I just pretty much introduced you, could you please do us the pleasure of introducing yourself?
Speaker 5:Yeah, happy to be here. We've been working on blockchain domain systems for I guess it's six years now officially January, yeah. So for the past six years, we're very excited about all different types of blockchain based naming systems and tokenization of domain names in general. We think that's a huge move. Domains were the very first you know big digital asset back in the 90s. They're still a huge digital asset.
Speaker 5:I think that we need to get domains to adopt these newer technologies to open up new doors on the internet. Specifically, one of the things we are very interested in at Unstoppable Domains is how you can use your domain name as your identity across different applications online and hopefully build reputation around that identity, and that solves some of the problems we have on the internet around fraud, bots, spam, misinformation and blockchain is really great at the truth. Right, there are trust machines from the Economist article, like a decade ago or whatever, and that promise still has not been fulfilled because it takes a long time to implement these technologies in a real world setting. So Unstoppable Domains is focused on doing that specifically for domains and connecting all the web two domains up to web three and vice versa, and just all the tools and functionality around that DotSats. I'll just say briefly my co-founder, brad, is a huge Ordinals fan, right, and he was in Ordinals really early in 2023 last year and we watched DotSats grow from the very beginning.
Speaker 5:I think he was there watching that and as soon as we saw that there was a strong community around it, we jumped in to support it. We tried to make sure that there weren't other collisions. People may know that there was a DotSats on handshake. Unstoppable Domains went in, talked to those guys and came to an agreement with them to get rid of the potential collision with DotSats, because we wanted the community DotSats on Bitcoin to really have a clear path over the next several years, and we're now working on implementing Ordinal support at UnstoppableDomainscom. So we announced that last July.
Speaker 5:I think we were one of the first domain places to say that we were going to support DotSats Ordinals as domains. There's a lot of work to be done to do that and we're not finished. We are a few months behind where we want it to be, but we are making progress on things. The most important one for us is having a wallet available to support Ordinals People in this ecosystem. You may know that representation of Ordinals on Bitcoin can be a little bit tricky. People may send their Ordinal by accident or spend it by accident, so tracking that and then showing that is a little bit challenging. So that's what we're working on. We hope to have that out the next few months and otherwise we're just excited about blockchain domains in general and excited that Bitcoin looks like it's going to have a native collection, which we think is exciting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, me as well. Definitely looking forward to hearing more about the integration and mechanics and all the things that are coming behind it, and blessed to have you guys on. You guys have certainly been industry and technology and adoption leaders in this space, so obviously, when the announcement came out that you guys were going to be supporting the DotSAT ecosystem, that was extremely exciting and bullish news and looking forward to seeing that come to fruition. Also, just before we get into the AMA portion of this, for those of you who aren't already aware, there is an auction going on currently for one of the premium domains on unstoppable domains, that is, xcrypto. The platform that that auction is being hosted on is on GBM auctions and we're actually blessed we also have the CEO of GBM on the stage as well. How are you doing today? You go.
Speaker 8:Pleasure. Thanks for having me. Really cool to be among so many domainers and great to hear you, matt Talk, and all of you guys. Yeah, it's super exciting. It's the first ever GBM domain sale. It's going pretty well at the moment.
Speaker 8:There's definitely some of the previous bidders have been quite vocal about the returns that they've been making and the fun of the action of GBM.
Speaker 8:So, no, it's exciting times and for anybody that doesn't know what it is or what we do, we created a smart contract based auction system that rewards participants.
Speaker 8:So in a GBM auction, you either make a return when you're outbid or you win the asset on sale, and this basically just creates a lot more bidding engagement, creates a lot more interesting price discovery, makes it a lot faster, a lot more dynamic and it's just, overall, a way better auction experience than one person winning and everybody leaving with nothing to show for it. So, yeah, that's a little bit about us, and we're really excited to see it being applied to the domain name space, where unstoppable are pioneers and leaders in the Web 3 domain name space, and so it's just really cool to be applying Web 3 native price discovery technology with the Web 3 native domain name layer and seeing how that action happens, so yeah, yeah, definitely glad to have you on that auction is currently live and looking forward to seeing how much that continues to grow and help drive liquidity all across the space for all domain name systems, including the ones we have on the stage.
Speaker 2:And so, without further ado, let's get into it. What I'd kind of like to do and I know that you guys touched on it in- kind of your intros but to, I guess, wrap it into a simpler package for people to digest.
Speaker 2:Let's get everybody on the same page. What exactly is SAT's names? How many TLDs are currently in the protocol? So everyone is pretty much familiar with dot SATs, but there are a few more, I believe, that are in the protocol. And then, obviously, how vibrant is the current community on BTC? And the reason why I'm asking that question is because I think quite a few people perceive Bitcoin as like a thing, but not as an ecosystem or a community like ETH or SOUL, like. A lot of people are used to interacting with those types of communities or NFTs and they don't know that this entire ecosystem, this thing, exists on Bitcoin. So yeah, let's get into it.
Speaker 4:All right.
Speaker 4:Well, I guess I'll jump in on the first part there.
Speaker 4:So I mean, for those who don't know or are new to ordinals in general, basically I think the way I look at it in the sort of simplest form, it's basically a numbering system for SATs, for Satoshis.
Speaker 4:So Bitcoin is composed of most people know 21 million, or supposed to have an upper limit of 21 million Bitcoin, and each of those Bitcoin is divided into 100 million Satoshis, and what the ordinals protocol does is essentially assigns a number to each one of those Satoshis, and it does that in sort of a first in, first out sort of method, and what that essentially allows then is for you to, once you have that numbering system in place, there's also you've got the witness data of Bitcoin transactions and in that witness data you're able to essentially put data onto the Bitcoin blockchain in a manner that it's you can put text or you can put images, basically anything that will fit, and as long as you pay the transaction fees, the Bitcoin blockchain transaction fees, that data will then become essentially permanently inscribed into that witness data field of the transaction. And so when you put that together with a number based on each Satoshi, that's essentially how you have ordinals and what I think I mentioned there that there's text.
Speaker 4:So text obviously is a very low, low data size, so it's going to be a lot smaller than a JPEG, for example. So the transactions to create Sat's names are typically quite cheap in comparison to any other type of data. But people need to understand that Sat's names. There's no central registrar here. This is a basically a rule set, and so when you put your Sat's name into that witness data field and pay the inscription fee, you're essentially just putting it on the blockchain and the there's a because the protocol basically says, through consensus, we accept that the first inscription of each name is the valid inscription. You will, you'll basic. That's how you own your name and so the mechanics of it, those are sort of the basic mechanics and that's why each Sat's name is considered an ordinal and so, yeah, that's sort of a. I think that kind of answers maybe the first part of your question.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I actually we'll get into the exact tech behind it, because, yeah, that'll, that's something that requires its own kind of deep diet. One of the things I wanted to clarify as well because this is, I think, a lot of things that people may have a misunderstanding of as well so the namespace Sat's name itself. It's kind of like you said, it's community driven or it's it doesn't have like a founder or an organization like, I guess, the naming system that we're used to. Am I correct on that?
Speaker 4:So yeah, kind of you're definitely correct, there's no central registrar, there is a founder, so he's he's actually anonymous, he has not revealed his identity and true to the client spirit, exactly.
Speaker 4:So it sort of created this sort of I would call it cool origin story as well around the whole Sat's protocol, especially when you consider what's happened since the release and how it inspired BRC 20 and how it's just inspired an explosion of metaprotocols. But the founder himself, he is active in the community, it's not. It's not that he doesn't. He kind of put it out there and then disappeared. So he is active in the community and we do communicate and he does post here and there. But the way Sat's kind of developed was it started with the dot Sat's namespace but then it kind of, I guess, evolved. The founder had always intended to evolve it to sort of have the ability for people to create other namespaces with the dot system as well. So I think that was the second part of your question. So there are basically there are several. I mean, you can imagine when you have a totally open protocol and people can ascribe whatever they want, you're going to have a flood of people. People are always going to degen into things, create things that they might be excited about. But what we've seen is the strongest consensus has definitely formed around the dot Sat's TLD. So while you do have some other TLDs that have been inscribed through the Sat system and protocol. I would say one of the interesting ones there actually is there was a dot UNISAT and there was also, obviously, you've got your collision names as well, which can be a little controversial. You've got your dot BTC. You've got trying to think of some others here. I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch, but basically, yeah, if you look at the numbers, like if you just want to look at the raw numbers dot Sat's has more than 420,000 unique valid names that have been created and inscribed, so I think that's well, it is definitely the highest in terms of a TLD. Now there is dot Bitmap out there.
Speaker 4:Dot Bitmap is kind of a unique situation. It's not really. It doesn't really bill itself as a namespace. It's, from the start, been a metaverse or, I would say, virtual land or something. It's essentially been created to offer builders a way to build metaverse type projects on Bitcoin in a sort of decentralized manner, and so that's set up in such a way where each number of the Bitcoin blockchain or each block number is inscribed with a dot Bitmap at the end of it.
Speaker 4:So that has been incredibly successful. Today they've got a huge market cap and obviously, since Bitcoin has over 800,000 blocks that have already been created in mind. They have the largest number of raw names as well, but I do want to distinguish those a little bit from the Sat's protocol, because Sat's protocol is not really a. The rule set is a little bit different, and so, while you can fit the dot Bitmap rule set or, sorry, you can fit dot Bitmaps into the Sat's rule set and you can acknowledge that people can inscribe names, for example, xobitmap it would technically be a valid Sat's names protocol name, but there's a this sort of collision of rule sets there, so it's important for people to understand the difference.
Speaker 2:And, yeah, yeah, I actually. So this is a great AMA for me because I actually hold pretty much all of that right. I old Bitmaps a couple of them was fortunately, was fortunate enough to get them when they were like five or 10 bucks, and obviously that's something that's changed and hopefully will continue to change in the right direction. I have some dot Sat's. I have some of the other TLDs that exist on the Sat's name ecosystem as well, as you know, dot BTC on both platforms, so very excited to get into that.
Speaker 2:I also realized that, like my first few set of questions are kind of very specific to pretty much probably XO and GM, but then I have one really solid question that we're going to deep dive in, hopefully with Mat. So yeah, if it feels like I don't have a question for you yet, that we're kind of leading into it because, but yeah, let's kind of go right back to the basics and the mechanics of the platform itself. So, for people who are, who are hearing this, it's the first time that they're knowing a dot Sat's or a dot Bitcoin or any of the suggests how do you even mint a dot Sat or as an estimate, and then also can you explain what that process is Because it's a little different a process than you know minting on, like I said, evm chains or buying something on secondary, and feel free to go into things like wallets and things like that and how they compare to things like metamask.
Speaker 4:Sure, yeah, I can give a little perspective on that, basically, when people want to inscribe a Sat's.
Speaker 4:So I like to say, well, there's three basic ways that you can acquire a dot Sat's name. The first is, if it doesn't exist already, you can inscribe it on the Bitcoin blockchain. The second is you can purchase it on secondary if it's already been inscribed. And I guess the third method would be that you can make an offer on secondary markets. Certain markets have an offer function built in. I believe it's MagicEden and Ordinal's wallet currently have that functionality. It's not widely used yet, so I haven't been aware of anybody who's accepted an offer on a Sat's name. But it is possible to do, and I expect that that will become a lot more important in the future as Sat's gains adoption.
Speaker 4:But going back to the first level, first thing you probably want to do if you're in the market to get your own Sat's name is you want to find out if it's been inscribed. So you have to go to probably the most popular and most widely used right now place to do that. It would be Unisat, and Unisat has a search. They have two ways. You can search One. You can simply go to thesat search tab and type in the name, and the first inscription should show up with a green check mark if it's already been inscribed, and if it hasn't been inscribed, it'll just be empty. You can also, on Unisat, go to their inscription service tab, and so for this you will need a wallet. You don't necessarily have to use Unisat wallet I'm just using them as an example but you have to connect your wallet to the website, have some Bitcoin in there, and once you get into the inscription service, there is actually a tab on Unisat's page that has specific Sat's, so you don't necessarily have to worry too much. You can just type in the name that you want, for example, xo12345.sats. Basically, it's like you just click through from there, so, and it will tell you if that name has already been inscribed or not, and if it hasn't, it will have sort of a green check and it'll.
Speaker 4:You can go to the next phase, which would be basically paying the transaction and inscription fees, and so you'll transfer a little bit of Bitcoin to UNISAT and then UNISAT takes care of the actual inscription for you. So they will put your text in the correct format and they'll just put it into the mempool the Bitcoin mempool at the fee rate that you've decided to take, and so that fee rate is important. I know that a lot of newcomers will not understand, but Bitcoin is a very slow blockchain when you compare it to some other blockchains. So if you really really want your SATs name to be done and inscribed in the next block, it's advisable that you would first figure out what are the current fees going for. So you can go to mempoolspace for that or there's several other ways and you want to take a look at the average amount of fees that have been.
Speaker 4:I usually look at the past few blocks and I see, okay, what fees are getting into each block and if it's, let's say, 60 SATs VB, I'll maybe put a fee rate of 65 just to sort of be on the safe side. And then, yeah, you just wait for it to be inscribed and once it's inscribed you're basically done. It'll show up in your wallet, as long as you're using an Ordinals compatible wallet like Unisad or there's several good great wallets like there's Xverse, there's Leather, there's GoSat, so there's several wallets and there's also Ordinals wallet has their own sort of native wallet as well. So, yeah, that's sort of how you would do it and, yeah, if you have a follow on question or.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's for those of you who are listening and trying to grasp the process. It's definitely different from media grasp, but it does get used to it, just as you mentioned.
Speaker 2:And one of the unique things about the DOT SAT extension in particular, at least at the time I don't know if it's changed, but that was one of the things that was beneficial was the fact that it checked for the names in advance and let you know if one was available or not. At least at the time when I inscribed mine for any other thing that you wanted to inscribe, you had to go through a manual check to see if it was the first inscription or not, and that thing, and we'll see if we can touch on the importance of the first inscription as we get a little deeper into the protocol. And to the tech Collector thank you for joining us on the stage. I'm going to see that you've got your hand up. Go for it, sir.
Speaker 9:GM guys. Gm, mr Wen, thank you for hosting this community space with the DOT SATs. That's great to see a lot of cross community, cross pain collaborations going on. There are a lot of great builders up here GM stats, exo stats, namer tips, matt from Unstoppable. What's good guys. Hugo as well, good to see you here as well.
Speaker 2:And this is actually the guy that got me in the DOT SATs, by the way. So thank you for that collector, just in case you don't miss that.
Speaker 9:I forgot that. Even like bro, we work on so many different projects in alpha and we're in every chain, so I forget about that stuff. I think that came kind of naturally with the whole bitmap saga and stuff and I know that these guys would definitely be bullish on bitmaps and awful bitmaps as well. I was actually just going to touch up on what exo was saying about the meme pools and stuff. You can actually get like front run with like the meme pools as well. So if you want to be like conservative with gas fees and save a few dollars and stuff and like you're trying to take something hot and all this sometimes is actually worth paying that little bit extra in gas to speed up your process because you can't get front run, then this isn't actually happened on other chains and it's something that I feel like only happens on Bitcoin and stuff because the transactions are so raw. So say, two people are going for the same thing and then one puts like $5 and the other one puts like $50. The one that's put $50 for gas fee they're more likely to. I'm not saying you need to go that high and it doesn't always need to be that high as well. Sometimes gas fee on Bitcoin can be quite low. I know that the usage has increased significantly since the rise of ordinal, so gas has like increased in line with that, I think. When the high first came out, gas was like less than $5 and stuff, so it was less than the ETH. But yeah, like that's one thing to consider as well. Like gas could affect your transaction in the sense that someone else could take it.
Speaker 9:I was experimenting with the ticker rug RU99 as, like a Bitcoin ticker. I wrote in the group and someone sniped that BRC20 ticker. I'm like damn rug really got rugged out here. And, seeing as this is the dot sats room, if anyone would like to buy the Grail FXCK, have you guys want to interpret that? I'm not going to spell it out for you guys. Fxck, dot sats. Yeah, feel free to shoot me a DM.
Speaker 2:That's not a grail, sir. That's not a grail.
Speaker 5:Guys, I got to jump here in like five minutes so I know you have a couple questions for me.
Speaker 2:Let me go straight into that. So at least to the point. So once you inscribe one of these, they essentially I'm not sure what the current utility is on the platform or the protocol, or the big ordinals themselves exist as, like I don't know how to explain it, but obviously the unstoppable announcement that they would be integrating them into the ecosystem and potentially adding the same suite of utility that they offer to the rest of the domains, to these domains, is a quite bullish prospect. So, Matt, if you can kind of dive in again how you discovered dot sats and exactly kind of what your plans are for the TLD, yeah.
Speaker 5:So we like to monitor like strong communities in crypto and we kind of pay attention to strong communities in crypto, especially ones that are interested in naming. So it was pretty obvious to us that this was something we needed to pay attention to. And then we also work with a lot of brands to try to launch naming systems around their brand. So we work with blockchaincom for dot blockchain. We work with several others since then to launch TLD specific to their brand and their like communities. So dot sats was one of the first ones where it's completely community driven project. Love the momentum that we saw there. It was new and we've been looking for something on Bitcoin for years.
Speaker 5:Right, I'm a big fan of all the ordinals work and making Bitcoin a little more flexible to do new things. So there's a lot of challenges with ordinals. There's a lot of challenges to adding utility to ordinals. But we're going to try to tackle those challenges specifically with dot sats. And what are we going to do? Well, we want to get to a place where you can have the same utility around a dot sats domain name that you have with any other a supple domain name, and then the same is utility that you can get for dot e or the same utility eventually that you could get with a dot com. That is not a quick journey but I will say one thing which is dot sats is completely forward compatible with ICANN. So if you look at like dot e or you look at dot x, those are, those are Web three domain endings, like they're specific for Web three and I named, you know, ours, dot x and then we also have dot eight, eight and dot e. These are outside of what ICANN has a process for integrating into their system. But if you look at something like dot sats, that is going to be fine because it should. It meets all their current requirements. It does not have any forward collisions and we work really hard to try to ensure there aren't other collisions because that causes issues when you want to get to that point of integrating in with Web two. So you know, on long time frames five plus years there is, we believe, a path for dot sats and other forward compatible TLDs in the web three space to work with ICANN and we think that's kind of like the next huge stepping stone for the industry and between now and then we're going to build all the connective tissue for Web two domains to work in Web three.
Speaker 5:So you know, we announced dot com support. We sold our first dot com domain name in October. We're applying for all of our licensing. Good Lord, you guys would not believe how much licensing there is on the back end. And they have to. They actually have to vet your technical implementation right, and there is no technical implementation for registries and registrars inside of the DNS system to work with block trade domain names. There's none. There's no approved system for doing it. So we're working on that as well and, you know, looking to open source that work and then so anyone can use it for watching their naming system to enable them on the blockchain. So, yeah, it's a lot of plumbing work and Unstoppable.
Speaker 5:Domains is an interesting place compared to a lot of other people, because we're able to work with offline and on chain right, so we can show up at ICANN meetings. We are a company, we can work with regulatory compliance. We can, you know, ensure that there's a contact address for each domain name if that's required in order to make the connection necessary. We can work with UDPR policies and trademark owners and brand owners and so forth, and we can set up systems to work with all those different people. So we're trying to be like the coin base for blockchain based domain names right, and that means that we have to just do a lot of grunt work. It's not super fun all the time, but that's okay and I think we can serve a really good.
Speaker 5:We could be a good steward for explaining why we think having blockchain based tokenized domain names opens up the door for using naming systems as identity systems online and why that's ultimately going to be good for the internet, from everything from SSO to reputation and fraud and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 5:And it always looks weird when it starts out, but the internet was super weird in 1990. I remember I was very young, but people who played on the internet like people looked at you like you had three heads right, and people look at people who play with Bitcoin, ordinals and blockchain stuff with three heads today and you know it takes a while, but over a couple decade time span, this stuff is going to be very useful for folks. At least we think so, and that's kind of why we're committed to working on it so long time horizons. We're not promising anything, but we as a company are putting our money behind it. We're putting our money behind where our mouth is right and we're investing hundreds of thousands of dollars every month on technical things, building out the backend system to kind of make blockchain domain names come to life.
Speaker 2:Thank you for that and while we do still have you, if you don't mind, answering one more question, kind of want to tap into the mind of a CEO and this question.
Speaker 2:For most of us the answer is obvious, but for a lot of people it may have some benefit to spell it out. As you said, you guys have invested a lot of money and a lot of resources and time into building out the platform and to the TLDS themselves. We've mitigated probably one of the most popular probably colliders out there or potential collisions out there by acquiring the Dotsat's name on the handshake namespace. So this is now an asset that you own and control and could have just the same built on top of that, but have chosen, obviously, to integrate with the native Dotsat community and kind of use this asset as or to take it out of circulation so it won't collide. Kind of explain to us why that decision, why to go with the native community and continue to foster on what they've built. And essentially you know you're operating with a protocol that has no leader and in contrast to working with the asset that you own.
Speaker 5:Yeah, well, really, it was a bet on Bitcoin, so, end of the day, we just wanted to. We saw that Bitcoin was making a lot of investments in new technology via the Ordnance Protocol. We thought it would be really bad for everyone if there was a conflict when that was getting started, and we just wanted to remove that friction, and so we were able to reach an agreement. That was, you know, everyone was happy, and so that that's great, right, and we actually know from experience.
Speaker 5:So, unfortunately, in a blockchain, unregulated space, you get into conflicts all the time and, believe it or not, all the way back in 2020 or something like that, when we first launched Doc Crypto there, we had another collision with another person and it got ugly. And we just learned from that experience that when you have collisions, you need to try to address them as quickly as possible and you need to try to go to an amicable solution, because if you just fight constantly, you're going to waste resources and time. And so we pounced on it and, to be honest, we were probably like overly concerned, right. So meaning that it probably would have been kind of okay and I'm sure you guys would have eventually found a resolution between the communities, but we were just in the position to kind of solve it immediately and you know we wanted to pay it forward and our thinking is we want Bitcoiners to be excited about blockchain-based domain names.
Speaker 5:It's a new thing for them. We hope that they'll come and shop it on softable domains, obviously once we have everything up and running and I know we don't have it up yet, so don't expect you to shop there yet, right, but we just hope that you know we're showing that we're trying to help this space develop and you know that's the kind of thing that you know gets customer loyalty over time. Right, you do the right thing. You know how we approached it and we are excited about Dotsats, just generally, I mean and Ordinals. So, yeah, I think that answers your question. So I do have to jump.
Speaker 5:I apologize I'm a little bit over where I got to do, but everyone thanks for chatting with you guys and very excited again about all the tech that's happening here. And it's going to be a while before everything gets out. But really, you know, it's fine if things come a little bit later than you expected, as long as they come right. And it's hard as a technologist because you want something like yesterday. But I mean, all the stuff is being built, it'll get here over time. It's just a little bit of patience and you know I think the future is bright. All right, thanks guys, I'm jumping.
Speaker 2:And thank you as well for your time. Have a great day, go ahead and jump off. I definitely want to commend Matt and the unstoppable team for rocking with the native community Again. They did have the option of going the other way and that is something that I actually did appreciate, because the community is allowed to grow organically. Also, partnering with you know utility that can help you know on-boarding and take it to the next level. So if anybody listens back again you know want to give Matt and unstoppable their flowers and thank them for the contributions that they've had to the space, which you should be among these ones. You know history.
Speaker 2:when people look back, they're going to look back at a lot of the things that unstoppable has added to the space, especially in this early period, especially as we see how this unfolds, and I think a lot of people are really going to learn to appreciate, you know, the position that they played and likely will still be playing a huge position in the future as well. So, yeah, now let's kind of circle back around Just before you go.
Speaker 9:That's crazy. They're saying that the ICANN integration and stuff as well, so they're kind of taking like the web free Bitcoin native dot sat and turning it backwards and giving it like the web to functionality as well, which is like crazy and because it's not even like like dot sat, sort of dot whatever like on Bitcoin is like the next level of web free domains and this is kind of like a debate that we were having at the beginning and stuff. So this is like going from my level free back to like level zero and yeah, wow.
Speaker 2:Tech is real, sir. That's why it's important to never spread the narrative that there can only be one blockchain naming service, because you never know when the other one might become cooler than the one you're super bullish on. And yeah, speaking on bullishness, let's talk about the first sat's names. Yeah, there you go. We got to make sure it's definitely the sound bites. But let's talk about the current market for a stopover veins and hopefully, you know, as you know, are not the first level veins. The current market for top sat's and hopefully, you know, with the stopover, integration opens up more markets, more liquidity. Hopefully these numbers be, you know, pale in comparison to what does come into the ecosystem, but the numbers you guys have been able to do are already impressive enough, and I see that you pinned one of them up to the top of the space. So I wanted to go have you guys kind of go over the market, which marketplaces are popular for people who are wanting to look for a name on the secondary market. Also, kind of go over like, the hot and trending categories too, because I noticed you guys have a lot of things that are similar as far as category wise, are starting to create, you know, some of the same categories that people are used to in the ecosystem. So same trends. Very easy for people you know to kind of migrate that over if they're bullish.
Speaker 2:Also, I wanted to know if you guys know what a word moji is. Yet if not, you're very familiar. Our own word, moji, word mojisats. If you don't know what that is, it's fine, we don't have to talk about it. But yeah, go for it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I've had my eye close on the market for months and I would say, from the start basically and I know, gm, you'll also have some things to say on this as well but yeah, the digits have been just super hot. I think that ever since the digit craze on dot eave happened, it's just been a meta really and everybody now kind of looks at it. But I think there's a good reason for that and it's that the fact that you can have a floor price, you can establish a sort of base price. It gives investors a little bit of assurance that there's going to be liquidity there. Everybody sort of coalesces around this idea that we've got these 999 club or 10k club or we also got super hot is a two letter, two letter dot, sad stones domains are super hot and those are even more rare. Those are even more rare than the 999 club. I think there's only 676 two letter names. So, and those have been just we've had some crazy liquidity on these markets like Magic, eden and Unisat we were seeing before Christmas we saw a run up of, I think, 1717 X, run up from about $100 a piece a few months ago to before Christmas. They were selling for 1700 a piece and these were selling. They were not just, they were not just sitting there, they were selling like we were having in some days. We had dozens of those sell in a single day, so there's definitely liquidity there.
Speaker 4:I would say the volume has been a little bit slower recently. I would attribute that to the hot mints that have happened or we've had on ordinal some some really really popular JPEG collections like the node monkeys and the Bitcoin puppets, and I just think that, like a lot of things in crypto and investing in general, when all the attention moves, it tends to dry up the volume in the areas that we're getting attention. So, but it always comes around right. So you just know that this is a patience game. If you're a domain, or you know that better than probably anybody in the space, domains are not quick flip assets. These are assets that you, you hold and you know have conviction in. But yeah, I don't know, gm, if you have some comments as well. I know that you've been watching closely.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so the best platform that people have been using in the ordinals to buy like legit listings of dot sets names is probably UNISAT. I'm saying this because UNISAT you know they've been supporting dot sets names like to the wallets and on the platform since the early beginning. So I've been sending, for example, for my UNISAT, I've been sending to GM dot sets from any other wallets that I have on UNISAT so you can you can send directly to your dot sets name to UNISAT and they also have, like like security, some security measures for like hidden characters or non traditional characters that other marketplaces, like Magic Eden, yeah, they don't have like any alarm signs when people buy like 888 dot sets for like 200 bucks and you know people think, oh, I'm going to get 888 dot set for 200 bucks. No, because 888 dot sets almost sold for one Bitcoin on UNISAT like, like like last month. So people are buying their sets name with hidden characters.
Speaker 3:So UNISAT is the top marketplace right now available and soon people will also be able to buy to unstoppable. So I didn't know that yet, but I've been reading like like unstoppable is long. It will be launching their own wallet, so I think like our existing wallets will also be able to connect on unstoppable domains. Not that I want to sell GM dot sets, but I will be technically possible to list it on unstoppable domains. And you know, unstoppable domain says like millions of users. So I'm pretty sure dot sets, will you know, regarding to volume and regarding to exposure, will gain some massive traction. So that's, those are my two dot sets.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the unstoppable domains, integration, that that's just. That was a game changer is a game changer and I'm looking forward to that and it's substantial good. It is going to open up the door and anybody who's been fading unstoppable it's on you. But opening up the ability for people to pay and be able to manage and get those the utilities that comes in the ecosystem, yeah, that's going to do nothing but put more liquidity into the space.
Speaker 2:I actually and I don't know the best way to ask this question or if it's even a question that makes sense, but I'll get into it a little bit, kind of on the tech side, because I was I was wondering when they do come on the unstoppable platform, but I guess we kind of answered that there they're working on the technology to where they'll still be or no, so so, never mind there, and before I get in, and also thank you guys for giving me advice on the marketplace, as I know, a lot of people started using magic, even as late, to buy ordinals. It's very easy to use marketplace. However, there are some dangers with using that marketplace, you know, in contrast to using, like you said, a unisat. So, for those of you guys, always do your due diligence and anything with magic, even, and now recently, phantom as well.
Speaker 9:So phantom is now integrated Bitcoin into this wallet. You can use that as a thing. I see, if you have a great like builders and the listeners as well, maybe if you want to invite them up, to come up. I see Ishmael, I see Dirk from expector as well. Shout out to these guys. No. So I was going to say briefly on a magic Eden, they really really adapted the Bitcoin adoption like from the get go, as soon as like ordinals and all this kind of stuff was like in play, let's say, like March, april time. Boom, magic Eden had a whole separate section for Bitcoin. They integrated the unisat wallet. They integrated the West Java wallet I can't remember, I don't use it, but there's another X verse, yeah, x verse.
Speaker 9:They put up a section for bitmaps for dot sat, for dot unisat, for whatever, like magic Eden. Often, like to this day, open sea hasn't even got like a Bitcoin network and magic Eden. The day that this stuff started coming out, boom, they were all over this and stuff. So shout out to them.
Speaker 3:What do you think? What do you think that? What is the reason for open sea? Like not integrating, like Bitcoin?
Speaker 9:and dot sat. I think they're renaming to broken sea. I think that's probably like some of the hold up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm not sure why obviously, in particular had a little bit coin. I remember I used to be a huge part of the BNB chain community I guess I still am but was really involved in the NFTs communities there and it was a big deal when they finally decided to integrate them and then that went away. Not sure why they select when they select, but in due time and kind of, as we're seeing and as collector is mentioning, there's becoming easier and easier and more and more platforms are starting to integrate ordnals and the ability to buy ordnals and it's just a matter of time before it ends up all the stages. Why they're not doing it now have no clue. Also, I know we haven't had a chance to hear from Chris. See, if you have any questions, go for it. If you do, sir.
Speaker 6:No. I'm just I'm actually I'm with everyone else. I'm actually admiring how the puzzle pieces are coming.
Speaker 9:Taking notes today.
Speaker 6:Repeat that.
Speaker 9:I said you're taking notes today.
Speaker 6:Oh, I'm always taking notes, I think.
Speaker 6:I think what's interesting with with the dot says names is that you know anyone who's really immersed in the blockchain naming sector overall has heard a lot of the discussions, right, and to hear Matt outline kind of what their role in making that sense names more accessible, and then hearing Jim got sats and then hearing XO dot sats get more into the technicals, I think that it just reiterates why the education is so important and I love the fact that Matt stated that you know it's taking a little bit more time than they expected but it's coming together and that's really important because that's sats names have been.
Speaker 6:They have been that that topic of discussion that hasn't faded in relevance, but it hasn't been totally understood, but it has. It has gained enough interest to keep people excited and keep people investing in this particular segment of naming, and I think that that's really interesting. So to sit back and listen and just get you know, just admiring the fact that there's a level of clarity that's being provided right now that, dare I say, in many respects has been overdue, it's happening nonetheless, and I think that you know it's taking place at the top of the year is very important. So yeah, I'm just sitting back taking it all in.
Speaker 2:Yes sir, yes sir, and once again I'm definitely glad that we got finally got a chance to get the same aid Again. I think a lot of people are in that same position. You know they're. They're bullish about it. We know the ecosystem is real, just don't 100% understand how to get into it. Or you know even you know the mechanics of basis around it or how similar it is to the ones that we're used to.
Speaker 2:And as we continue to learn and as, again, as the space continues to draw more people, more liquidity, the market will get bigger, and so it's great to have these spaces before. We're kind of getting to a period where, I think you know the, the bull run by price a lot of people out already as it is. You know Bitcoin gases. You know some that now you have to take in consideration as a part of your life. It used to be. You know minimal transaction fees or something that you could easily do and buy things across $2 or $3. Now you know $30, $40, $50 of transaction.
Speaker 2:So you know always the best time to hear something and take advantage of something or make an action. You know the day before you heard it, but the day you heard it is certainly about an opportunity for tomorrow and kind of getting into that as well wanted to see if Hugo had anything to ask because, kind of as and this is why I'm glad we have you up here you know, as we continue to build the market, there is going to be a need for more ways, obviously in order to get the domains and hands of the other people and to attract the real value of those domains from people. Sometimes it's not easy to do when you're just listing them, so I want to see if you had any questions or any input so far, mr Hugo.
Speaker 8:Yeah, no, I think it's a really interesting point that you bring up around kind of price discovery and valuation for unique assets, because obviously every domain name, whether Web 2 or Web 3, is a unique asset that represents a completely unique opportunity for branding or real estate or whatever it might be, and so you know there's a lot of distribution and trading systems that exist there today. You've got English auctions right. I bid one, you bid two, someone bids three, they buy it for three, it's worth three. Everybody else leaves with nothing, that they spend a bit of time in the process. You've got Dutch auctions. You know you start at three, go down an increment, someone bids at one, they get it for one. Again, the other big problem with Dutch auctions is you confront run those really quite easily, which isn't great for the honest participants. You've got direct listings right. I think it's worth 100 and I'm just going to put it at 100 and see what happens.
Speaker 8:But you know how do we really value something? The market is usually a better way to do it because you've got more variables, more input, and so, yeah, I mean it's a big problem in price discovery and it plagues many markets, domains being one, and that's why we came up with GBM and I think it's a really exciting way to reward people in real time for helping to discover the value of an unpriceable asset. And you know, it's all done in real time, it all uses smart contracts, it's all fully transparent. It's just, I just think, a better way to do auctions. It generates more liquidity and it creates more bidding engagement and more interest in the sale itself, and I think it would be, yeah, overall, just a great way to add more interest, more liquidity and more engagement in markets where shifting unique assets is difficult and there's friction, and the methodologies around valuation pricing are not very accessible and difficult to understand.
Speaker 8:So, yeah, I think it's going to be a really just exciting way to see domains in the future be traded by this way. And you know we've done a lot of Web3 integrations for GBM with a lot of other businesses. Pixelcraft Studios, avogachy was one of our first, and they've just blown it out the water with how their community has adapted to GBM auctions and pricing and everyone just basically has way more fun because you're being rewarded for spending your time for helping to discover the value. So I think it's a big part of the future of how people are going to buy and sell NFTs of all kinds and even real world assets that are represented by NFTs. And yeah, just super exciting to see how that grows over time and how this standard hopefully gets more and more adopted so that you know buyers and sellers can offload assets quicker and in a more kind of gamified fun fashion.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I 100% believe is more utility as a community in the Sats ecosystem becomes bigger. We're definitely I mean two the two guests up at the top have two names that you probably couldn't put a price tag on and we've got the many more names in the ecosystem that are definitely going to be resources like that in order to get maximum value. So, yeah, very appreciate your presence here and, you know, kind of hand in, early hand, looking forward to creating some solutions and working with GBM to potentially create some of those solutions to help bring that value.
Speaker 9:Is that?
Speaker 8:alpha sir, tiny bit of it, Tiny bit of it, tiny bit of it, tiny bit of it, tiny bit of it Gonna be excited.
Speaker 9:Yes, sir, I quickly want to say a shout out to GBM as well. I know that you guys, facilitated with the big girls rise like auction and like the charity and all that kind of stuff as well. So shout out to you guys for helping with that.
Speaker 8:Cheers. Yeah, no, charity is a big part of what we like to do as well. I mean, we actually started in this industry back in 2017 with our first NFT project called Cryptograph, which was these sort of one-of-one NFTs made by famous individuals that generate money for charity forever. And it was in the creation of this project where we were like, okay, how do we discover the value? And that's when we created GBM. So the kind of origin story of GBM was born into the idea of philanthropy, so quite closely interlinked for us.
Speaker 2:Yes, sir, yes sir.
Speaker 2:Well, again, very privileged to have you on here, looking forward to how we are going to continue to build resources for the domain ecosystem all across the ecosystem, including, hopefully, for the SaaS name service, and it's well.
Speaker 2:So now I kind of want to go right back around to the tech and the naming system itself. It's not typically customary for me to ask a question about a competing protocol, but for the sake of education and clarity, I think it's completely relevant here. As you guys have mentioned before, the same kind of elements potentially or kind of exist in the Bitcoin naming ecosystem as we're kind of used to it trying to figure out on our side, and that's the potential of collisions, and one of the ones that a lot of people may see that's also a very popular naming service is BNS. So I wanted to see if you could briefly give us an overview of BNS stacks and the difference between the two protocols, if there is a current or potential relationship between the two or, you know, if you guys are always kind of remain separate protocols and the tech difference, the difference in the tech stack that you could do if you could.
Speaker 4:So I'll be honest, I wouldn't be able to do like a super deep dive on what how BNS works, but at a high level. Basically, bns, it's been around for a long time and they have sort of their own sort of suite of TLBs that are associated with it. So they've gotbtc, they've got I thinkid, and there's several others as well that are associated with BNS, and BNS is a smart contract based system. So because they're on stacks, they do benefit from having smart contract functionality and I think that's sort of a big part of their value proposition is that they are programmable in a way that I guess SATs domains perhaps could be at least at the base layer are not as programmable, and I guess this is sort of similar to, I guess, what you can say abouteast and sort of some of the other naming systems out there. So BNS, yeah, they've got thebtc that they've been using for a long time and which a lot of people are invested in. And you mentioned collisions. I guess, yeah, it would be.
Speaker 4:There is this issue of there's been so many sort of competingbtc TLBs that have come out in the last, especially last year I think on Ordinals alone there were at least three attempts at abtc TLB that I can remember. I'm not sure how active any of them still are. I know that the one that is probably the most adopted by our community has been thebtc just the pure inscription based one that's similar tosats and that could be yeah, so there are definitely people who are invested in that and I know that it's fairly large in the Asian community as well and they have seen some adoption. So they have been adopted into UNISAT Wallet for sending Bitcoin and I think also Ordinals Wallet also has that functionality. But this is a super controversial kind of area that we're waiting into, because I know that my personal views on collisions are that they're bad, sort of.
Speaker 4:The whole reason why I got intosats in the first place was that it just didn't seem to suffer from those sorts of problems the same way, and one of the reasons I've been so bullish onsats is that you know, as Matt also said, you know they also got rid of the potential for a collision with the handshake and sosats does have a sort of I call it sort of blue sky. You know, when you think about domains it's, and actually I'm just so unbelievably bullish on some of the things that Matt was saying. It's incredible to me how much potentialsats has as a TLD. I don't think people quite understand. If Bitcoin becomes mass adopted on a wide scale around the world, the understanding of what sats are is going to exponentially increase, in my opinion, and so what today might seem like a niche sort of TLD could one day become absolutely a household name, in my humble opinion.
Speaker 4:But back to the question. I guess, yeah, so BNS is around, stax has been getting some Stax itself. The token has been doing very well this year. They've got their own sort of inscription system that's come out recently. They've got their own sort of BRC20-esque token system, and I have to say there's a lot of people that there's a lot of cross pollination between our two communities. There's definitely BNS people who are involved insats and there's definitely a vice versa.
Speaker 4:So I don't like to take sides in the whole collision debate. So much aside from the fact that I think that wallet providers should probably start talking about these things. I mean, we've got this unfortunate situation with Ordinal's wallet and UNICEF wallet supporting onebtc, and then we've got X-verse wallet and letter wallet supporting anotherbtc. I mean you can see that that's going to be a problem, right? So I do hope that there will be some more communication on that. I don't know if people think that that's acceptable or not. I personally don't think it is. I appreciate that those wallets are in a tough spot too. I mean, they don't want to necessarily be picking winners, you know. A lot of times they want to let the market sort of decide. But when it comes to domains, I just think it's really important that we get to some kind of consensus before people start spending their money.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you very much for asking that and, like I said, from an educational perspective it's very important for us to get that answer again. A lot of us who are you know the quote, unquote Web3 domain space. I think we've kind of gotten used to, you know, the danger of collision and not necessarily saying that we're any closer to getting to a space where that's going to be resolved. At least we're kind of moving along with it. It's important that if people are going to cross over to another ecosystem, that they understand those same things do exist in that ecosystem and never know, like you said, you know how they'll kind of play out in the long run. You know the situations with the wallet. Hopefully that gets worked out.
Speaker 2:I actually hold on VTC, on both. You know the SaaS name system inscribed through Unisat as well. This and that's in the stacks ecosystem, kind of both at the same time. So you know kind of doing the same as everyone else you know, open for the best. You know. To be honest with you, I hope both you know thrive and find some common ground because, again, just like I don't believe that there should be, you know, one naming service for the entire blockchain. I think you know, blockchains themselves, depending on the utility that they offer, you know, may also be able to support multiple naming systems within it. So again, thank you for answering that question. I wanted to see if anybody on the panel with Chris or if Collector, if you guys had any more questions before I get to my last one, which I think is a super important question. Go for it, though, if you guys have one.
Speaker 6:Yeah, I was going to go ahead and I was going to ask why we were on the subject of, you know, collisions and you know there was a statement about that sets potentially being becoming a household name, and that really stood out to me, right, because I don't think that there's enough discussions about what this really means and what needs to happen in order to go ahead and penetrate those households. For you know a lot of the blockchain naming services that we're familiar with. That, again, I got to emphasize that that we're familiar with them. There's not a lot of discussion about what it's really going to take to go ahead and partner the sirens and background guys is New York City. You know there's not a lot of discussion about what is it really going to take to not only get mass adoption but to go ahead and ensure that there's mass familiarity, but minimal confusion, minimal confusion. And so that brings up, you know it brings to mind the handshake protocol, right? Anyone who's familiar with the handshake protocol knows that one of the big things that's really emphasized is that you know handshake is, you know, fork of Bitcoin and so on and so forth. Being that that sets is under the Bitcoin umbrella, I'm curious to know what is XO dot sats or GM dot sats is stance as it relates to handshake names? And let me be clear about why I'm asking this.
Speaker 6:We talked about the ability to be able to coexist, and I don't think that coexistence at least a healthy coexistence comes from not acknowledging that someone else or something else exists.
Speaker 6:I think that, at the end of the day, as long as we're respectful, I think that you know exchanging dialogue about how we perceive what's under the umbrella with us. I think that that's an important part of moving the space forward, especially as it relates to naming in the Bitcoin space, because we're familiar with naming on the Ethereum blockchain, but when it comes to naming on the BTC blockchain or Bitcoin blockchain, it's, it's, it's right for just so many advancements, and I think that we have an opportunity to approach quote unquote addressing our competition. We have an opportunity to approach that a lot better than what happened. You know first round with you know a lot of the Ethereum based name services. So kind of where do you, where do you guys stand? Like what do you guys know? Where do you all think that the handshake protocol fits into? What the grand scheme of naming on the BTC chain is going to be?
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's a good question. It's maybe one I'm not super well equipped to answer because I'm not super deep on handshake or the technology. I do know that there is this there has been a lot of discussion about, you know, like you said, coexistence and how are different TLDs going to coexist, and I totally resonate with what you said about that. I think that you know there has to be a way for communities to talk and acknowledge the existence of competing possible namespaces. When it comes to, you know, dot sats, I'm just, I'm just super happy that it seems like that issue has been put to bed with the unstoppable domains acquisition, I guess you could call it. I mean everything.
Speaker 6:That was actually. That was actually where the question came from. Because, you know, I think that when we look down the road in the history books, I think the move that unstoppable decided to make and I don't want to disregard, you know, because of course there were more than just unstoppable involved Everyone coming together, I'm just going to put it that way everyone coming together to ensure that this didn't become the problem that it could have been. And that was one of the reasons that I asked, because I think that what unstoppable did they didn't. I don't I don't necessarily think that in they, I think that they they lent the power and influence that they have to the dot sats. They're not just naming protocol and naming situation, but not in the way that most people would think. Like, you know, you got a big company that comes in and you know they're going to make everything what it should be.
Speaker 6:I think that Matt actually use the word, he use the word steward, right, and you don't get a lot of people in the web three space that you steward as often as as baby they could.
Speaker 6:So that's why I was asking that, because that that was, that was a pivot point.
Speaker 6:I look forward to down the road, seeing that sats is success and being able to make that correlation between where it is and where it could have been had that move not been made, had had it not been a situation where we had wonderful individuals like you, xo dot sats, and you, gm dot sats, to come here into these tech talks and have a discussion right that a lot of people didn't realize that they they needed to be a part of right. So I do. I thank you all because that's really, really important. Like it's easy for us to load up wallets by name, speculate, pinpoint what's going to work in the future, talk about what's not, but I think it's these real conversations that are going to lay the foundation for us to go ahead and actually be a part of something is going to not only benefit us but also benefit people all around the world, of all ages and of all backgrounds, right, without any of the confusion, because that's our responsibility to help make that possible.
Speaker 6:So yeah so I thank you. I appreciate chance.
Speaker 2:I actually. But before my last question I have one other question about. I actually meant to ask this and that was on stage, but above always been curious as well, and and so my personal view from the outside, looking in and unstoppable to the solid, like we said, by acquiring the doc sats, by being so bullish on basically kind of empowering, you know, the ability for the community to grow as it is right, and so I think that's something that I'm going to add into it. Did that come about by any conversations or something they just did?
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's a really good question and I can sort of answer it from my perspective. I mean, this was it was very much a unique and like a name or tips. I appreciate your comments there. I totally agree with you that people would look at this acquisition with some almost skepticism and say, are you guys serious? So you guys purchased, you know, a TLD on one just to help out this other community. It almost sounds too altruistic, too good to be true, but I really honestly believe that's what happened, based on my knowledge of the communications that happened.
Speaker 4:So, like the unstoppable guys, brad was deeply involved in that at the time. They reached out to the founder of DotSats and asked, basically you know, what his take was on the situation. Now, that doesn't mean that the founder of DotSats was involved in that negotiation. I don't believe he was. It was very much a negotiation between the owner of the handshake TLD and unstoppable. But I was also in communication with the owner from handshake. He was actually he's a nice guy.
Speaker 4:He was interested in what we were doing with DotSats from the very beginning. I guess for obvious reasons he had a big stake in how that all went down and he actually posted about it. You know his reasons for selling the TLD and I think he kind of just saw the writing on the wall. He saw that the DotSats community was just growing so rapidly on layer one Bitcoin ordinals that I think he sort of said you know, if this had gone differently, I might have kept this domain and tried to run it as a business or, you know, keep that domain.
Speaker 4:But given what's going on, this seems quite historic and I think that as a result, it was really just this coming together and almost like lightning in a bottle. You couldn't imagine a better scenario for DotSats and it's kind of also injected a lot of hope and enthusiasm into the DotSats and ordinal space in general when it was announced in July. So I would definitely call it historic. You know, if Sats ends up where I want it to be or where I think it can be, it will definitely be one of those pivot points that help shape the future of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you very much for the answer and, yeah, I definitely agree with you as far as everything lining up to create what I also believe is the best case scenario for the DotSats domains, and it's the same. I mean, I had several conversations with the Hanshaw community as well, when you know these announcements and acquisitions and stuff like that, you know first happened and same take.
Speaker 2:I had then as well, you know, explain it to that community that really you know who could possibly be more bullish, add more value, continue the narrative. You know, not only for right now, because a lot of us are just focused on what's happening right now, right, but even moving forward, like what makes more sense, like who would most people associate the Sats you know the Sats term with and you know the better, the better custodian or builder for it, I definitely believe, is you guys, along with you know what unstoppable has thought to add to that and definitely looking forward to seeing that continue to be built out, can't wait for that integration to finally take place and yeah, I think that's definitely gonna change things, especially, you know it's gonna happen during this bull, so that'll be nice.
Speaker 2:And so yeah before I get to that last question, which is this leads kind of right into Go Forkris.
Speaker 6:Yeah, I was just gonna say briefly, you know what the acquisition of the Handshake TLD kind of reminds me of. It reminds me of a more scaled version of when domain investors in the Web 3 space or brands will go and they will grab their names across different services. Right, I think that that is a great way, or a great lens, to look at this through, because everyone, in order for that to happen, of course, then, since it's had to be there, right, but everyone had to be mature, everyone had to look at the bigger picture. Right, you made a very good point about a lot of people in the Web 3 space. They look at things through the lens of now as opposed to the lens of the future.
Speaker 6:And that move that's why I don't think that it gets as much attention as it deserves. It's because you know, right now, the ecosystem that we're all propping up, you know a lot of it is driven off of that. You know now, now, now, fast, fast, fast, and you know the future will talk about it, but it's still now, now, now, and so, when you know, unstoppable, made that particular move and keep in mind it wasn't a highly, it wasn't a highly publicized, you know discussion and I'm pretty sure that it wasn't just a simple you know. You DM somebody and they just say, yes, no, this had to be discussed over some time, and that's why the owner of, you know, or the former owner of DotSats on handshake, you know, you have to tip your hat to him because he had to look down the road. It's not as if someone just grabs a TLD well, not a TLD like that and just decides, hey, I'm just gonna hold on to it and do nothing with it.
Speaker 6:In his post, he highlighted and alluded to the fact that you know, there were plans in place, right, and so to take and say, you know what, I'm gonna step back and I'm gonna make a decision. That is, it may not be what I expected to have to make in the beginning, but I'm gonna make it, and it benefits the web ranges, blockchain, naming, space. Who wouldn't want to be on that end of things, right? So I think that we could definitely take a lot from this.
Speaker 2:And whatever. Now, how easy Unstoppable made it for him to make that decision, although I will forever be curious, and yeah, that's. And so my last question is taking all of that into consideration. Right, for all the different ways that this could have went IE and I believe it was more recent as TLD and maybe I'm wrong, I think it was but the owner of the handshake TLD DotSats could have said no right, or they could have said yes to Unstoppable could have done its own thing with it.
Speaker 2:But we're here, right, we're here, as we've all agreed, is what we think was the most ideal outcome, moving and building forward. And I wanted you guys to kind of answer the question as to why that's important, why it's important for Bitcoin in this way, the way this is set up, the habits on naming protocol, the DotSats be built, you know, from front, like you said, in this layer, one built based on this real technology, rather than adopt the tech and the narrative of there being one, what three DNS for all, rather than being folded up into something else or it being taken over by some other company. Also, for those who want to connect with the community and help build the ecosystem together and participate where do those people go and what resources are there for them?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I think it's. For me, what's so important about DotSats is just that there's no centralized authority behind it, so it has this sort of same ethos as Bitcoin. It's for everybody, it's completely free. People need to understand that there is nobody making. I mean, unless you're selling it on a secondary market, nobody makes any money when you get your SATs name right, except the miners, the Bitcoin miners. So this is a completely new sort of concept in blockchain domains. It's a coming together of basically a whole group of people and basically saying we are gonna take this concept, this rule set, and we're gonna be stewards of it and apply it across the board so that we can create a naming system that's truly for everybody, right, and I think that, having this, a lot of people don't realize. There's literally no governance for DotSats, so it's completely permissionless.
Speaker 4:You can come in tomorrow or today. If you're a developer and you're interested in getting it on the ground floor and building things with DotSats, you can just do it right now. You can educate yourself on how the protocol works. It's very simple Basically, you've got the ordinals protocol in there and once you understand how the DotSats protocol intertwines with that, you can start building, and that's what we've seen with some great building. That's already happened with, for example, a ZIN browser, which is like an ordinals browser that uses DotSats and SNS names as URLs. We've got Philippe Servin, who also created his own version of that which is called Eternal. He's gonna be releasing that this year. There's gonna be an interesting Google Chrome application there.
Speaker 4:We've seen sort of a similar idea applied to also art galleries and things Like. There's a guy named he goes by, I think, color Blocks. He created an amazing art gallery that links based on Zats' names URLs. There's a lot to be really excited about, and just the fact that this community has happened organically has been, I think, the biggest thing for Bitcoin naming that has kind of happened in a long time. We can honestly say I'm super bullish on it.
Speaker 2:I'm also super bullish as well and extremely thankful for both of you and for everybody for coming on and helping us dive into this, I think, a while back and a friend of mine I wish he could be on this space, but Toby in addition to Collector, introducing me to it another friend of mine, toby, is why I kind of deep dived and started minting these domains with or inscribing in this case, and he is a very, very big proponent for pure decentralization.
Speaker 2:He's trying to develop a protocol that digital identity and ZK mixed in with it.
Speaker 2:But one of the things that we were kind of theorizing is that this may end up being the best of both worlds and the most ideal scenario, with pure decentralized identity at its core and then a conglomerate basically building utility on top of it so that it works regular, but it's still something that you really own as an asset, that is building value and can't be taken from you, and so yeah but looking forward to seeing how this again, how this continues to play out.
Speaker 2:I have quite a few names myself on that minting spree. In addition to getting our heart domains you know dot sats and Winair, drop dot sats, what I've got quite a few others that I'm extremely bullish on, including web3idsats. So, yeah, definitely a value for you guys coming in. For anybody who's listening to this, please, if you're bullish on it again, I encourage you to join the community. I encourage you to look at the different tools, to look at the ecosystem again.
Speaker 2:It's a real thriving building ecosystem. A lot of people are building on it, super bullish on bitmaps, what's being proposed to be built on that a whole metaverse. So a lot of use is coming by way of Bitcoin. It's not just the thing that you sit money on and let grow, and it's an actual technological layer and so glad to be able to connect with the builders in it. Before we end, I see we've got Priyanka on stage and I really wanted to hear from you last time, so I'm glad you're back. I wanted to give you a chance to say hi and yeah, tap in and give us a few words.
Speaker 7:Hey, hey, hey, thank you so much. It's been such a delight to hear you on the spaces and just learned so much. I do have a very important question related to digital identity. Here we are like permeating battery education and awareness in India. We are like going on to the weeds tier two, tier three, rural, you name it. We are there and here's where the biggest problem is right, like the identity and brand protection always is the biggest hurdle. Like, I am still not putting my website out, knowing that there would be, like impersonators out there forging the website and then, like you know, probably even asking money for these cohorts. So I don't want that to happen and somehow we've cracked a secure way of doing this. But I love to, like you know, check from the folks here, if you could, if there's a solution to it. It's my top goal in 2024 to ensure brand protection and identity protection. I would love to hear from you. Thanks.
Speaker 2:And I think that. So I think that wraps back around to you know the naming systems themselves and kind of the importance of you know the blockchains birthing their own naming systems that people you know can trust, easily recognize and become familiar with, especially the ones that you know have the utility. You can do the reverse resolution and things like that. Like these are all some of the implied security things that will become what we get used to in the future, the things that will help us validate who is who and what is what. So, yeah, I hope that answers that question. Go for it, chris, as we have one.
Speaker 6:Yeah. So you know that was a very, very, very, very solid question, and I would sum it up to you know, implementing these two things. One is pacing the, and you're doing this already, obviously, and I want to commend you for thinking into what the possibilities would be, as opposed to just, you know, leading with excitement and saying, hey, I'm just going to launch a website and nothing else is going to come out of it. I think the first thing that you are doing, you're pacing and you're strategizing, right, because that's really, really important. I think the second thing is that, whenever you decide to go ahead and move forward, just make sure that you always are indicating in writing in your promo materials, just all across the board, where the correlation of your brand exists across different chains and name services, right. So a good example of that would be like on your website, to sit there and say you know, we can only be found on these chains under these particular names. It might even go as far as providing a disclaimer that you know these are the names that you need to be mindful of.
Speaker 6:I know it might seem tedious, right, but at this point we can't afford, especially with the good work that you and your team are doing.
Speaker 6:You can't afford to sit back too long, right?
Speaker 6:Because then after so long you'll be playing catch-up and nobody wants to be doing that. But then you also don't want to go ahead and overexpose yourself and run the risk of someone attempting to do something malicious, because that definitely has its downsides. But you guys are taking the correct steps, by one, thinking about it, strategizing, obviously, and now by you being into 2024 and you saying like, okay, we're gonna move. The most practical approach would be to put it in writing make it extremely clear where you, your organization, where your team, where they exist, where they function, leverage the telegrams, the discourse, make sure that people know the channels in which they need to reach you if they have any questions whatsoever about something that they come across. And I think that with that, in the beginning phases, you will be able to go ahead and mitigate a lot of things, while the many good stewards in this space work towards instituting solutions that can combat those things that you're aiming to avoid for very good reasons. So, and kudos again to you, brianka, and your team.
Speaker 2:And thank you once again for coming on, looking forward to connecting. Actually, we'll reach out to you because I've been meaning to touch base. I wanna do an AMA and kind of dive deep further with what you guys are doing with the digital identity. I know we touched on it with the unstoppable space. You know that's the part of the space I like, the part where people are using it, building and empowering themselves with it, putting this to good use. And, yeah, before I close, wanted to give EXO or GM a chance to give any last words, direct us to again where to join the community directly. Do you guys have a telegram or Discord or anything like that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's a SETS names Discord. In a moment I'll post it up in here. But I just wanted to say, you know, a big thank you for hosting this space and I'd like to remind people to retreat or repost this space, as I've pinned on top here. So we've got some more. You know people who are interested, maybe interested into the dot SETS domains, but they don't know of existing yet. And I'd also like to give a small alpha and that's about the five digits dot SETS names, because these are not yet fully inscribed. Yet there's like 40% left of the 100K club of the dot SETS names and I've been wondering. You know why that is because you know these can go value in raising value very much once they are fully inscribed, because the four digits are already above 250 bucks each, I believe, and those cost like $1, $2 to inscribe. So that's all I wanted to say Thank you very much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is a solid alpha that as soon as I see any break in this Bitcoin gas, I'm definitely gonna jump on.
Speaker 2:And yeah, I am surprised that those aren't minted out. But yeah, numbers is the alpha for real. That's something I think I've faded in every ecosystem until recently, and when I had the chance on dot SETS, I faded it then too and extremely regret it. So, yeah again, do your own research. But numbers has always been the alpha, for some reason with domains. So surprised you get that opportunity still out there. And yeah, y'all heard it, that opportunity is still out there. Go for it XO.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I just wanted to say thank you guys for hosting this. It's awesome. Thank you for having faith and this is, in many ways, dot SETS is like this rookie we're the new kid on the block right, but Bitcoin obviously has an illustrious history and dot SETS would not be anything without the community and with spaces like these and people coming together and just having these discussions you know, open, frank discussions and moving the space forward, and I wanna thank you guys for helping with that, moving everything. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Yes, sir, yes sir, Like the dot SETS is like the new kid on the block, but it's the one that everybody knows is gonna make it. So, yeah, thank you guys both again for doing this much anticipated and much needed deep dive into the dot SETS ecosystem and SNS. I encourage everyone to share this with someone if you want to onboard them or if they need any more information about dot SETS names. As always, like I said, we do record these spaces so that you can easily listen back to them. In a couple of days, you'll see this on our website at iHeartDomainscom, along with an embedded player for you to listen back to. So we make it pretty easy for you to find this content. And, yeah, thank you guys, so very much.
Speaker 2:Hope everybody has an amazing weekend. I've got to go to a wedding in a couple of hours, but I'm glad that I got to spend my day learning about dot SETS, btc names. Thankful for Matt for coming on. That was definitely a blessing. And thank you for exo dot SETS. We're setting this up on such short notice. Setting everything up. You guys are truly amazing. Love the community.
Speaker 2:I need to get more active because, like I said, I hold just about everything. So, yeah, looking forward to everything that you guys are continuing to build in. Yeah, the day that Unstoppable Finally turns that integration live. If you faded dot SETS, you'll probably kind of regret it then if you don't regret it already. So, not financial advice, but there's plenty of opportunity still out there. Thank you guys again for attending another iHeart Domains Tech Talk AMA. It's been a pleasure and this has been our SETS names deep dive. You guys have a great weekend.